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Thu, Aug. 30th, 2012, 05:01 pm
Lyin' Ryan



This entry was originally posted at http://filkertom.dreamwidth.org/1557739.html. You may comment there or here, although LJ tends to have a livelier conversation at this time.

Thu, Aug. 30th, 2012 09:10 pm (UTC)
albear

Awesome video Sir! Ryan, a hypocrite's hypocrite. A brown noser's brown noser. A liar's liar!

Thu, Aug. 30th, 2012 09:40 pm (UTC)
nimitzbrood

I really just have to wonder if it's now a requirement to be completely psychotic to work in the government. :-(

There seems to be no end to the insanity on either side of things.

Thu, Aug. 30th, 2012 10:45 pm (UTC)
starcat_jewel

False equivalence. The Democrats have some problems, but the Republicans have the same problems a couple of orders of magnitude deeper, as well as problems that the Democrats lack entirely. I'm getting really tired of this "Oh, they both do it" bullshit that completely ignores matters of degree.

Thu, Aug. 30th, 2012 11:29 pm (UTC)
nimitzbrood

Aaaand this is why I hardly comment on political stuff.

To address your comment yes the Republicans are currently the most obnoxious and crazy.

But from what I've seen and heard over the years both sides play a dirty dirty game led by big money masters. Even the independents are likely dirty.

This country (however it happened) has managed to create a playing field in which the only way to get to the top is to step on the backs of others.

That's my viewpoint and my opinion. I honestly don't want to go back and forth and seriously considered deleting all this instead of posting it due to the potential for flame-ups.

In understand and respect your point of view. I just don't hold the same one. My apologies if that offends.

Thu, Aug. 30th, 2012 11:51 pm (UTC)
filkertom

And I will remind you both that you're both my friends, and there's no dang need to get cranky over this.

Nimitz, I agree with Starcat in that the vast majority of the false equivalence is perpetrated by pundits protecting Republicans. Sorry, m'friend, but they really do do it much more than the democrats. There is a ton of evidence to that effect.

Starcat, Nimitz posed a point of view. Where you see one thing, he sees something else. The best way to counter it among friends, I think, is to show him what you see: mention that there is a lot of evidence to the contrary, and link to it, and keep an even tone, as opposed to the hard-edged tone you took here.

I'm going to keep posting political stuff on my LJ. Please don't make me scrap comments by sniping at each other, okay, gang? Thanks.

Remember: Everyone here wants to save the world, and do so for everybody, even our political enemies, who are after all still people and Part Of The Tribe, even if they themselves don't realize it. Some of us espouse different methods. That's where we get dialogue.

Fri, Aug. 31st, 2012 12:54 am (UTC)
james_the_evil1

Not only are the Republicans FAR worse about it (as I noted in the comment I just made, it's so bad FOX is even calling Ryan's speech out as being a world record for lies), Romney's campaign has EXPLICITLY SAID they don't care about the truth! "We won't be dictated to by fact checkers!"
They've also admitted that they know some of their ads "like the "gutted welfare" charge) are lies but they're continuing to use them because they WORK.

Observers of all political persuasions have been noting since Reagen that Republicans have become increasingly less honest. The idea that "both sides are just as bad" is one of their lies.

Fri, Aug. 31st, 2012 02:06 am (UTC)
starcat_jewel

I would like to note that the biggest reason I get "cranky" about this is that only one party is trying to take away my right to make my own medical decisions and to deny my friends their civil rights. It's very hard for me not to hear false-equivalence arguments as saying, "Well, they're equally bad* on all the issues that matter to ME, and I'm not paying attention to the other ones."

*And in point of fact, that's false too, but it's not what really cheeses me off.

ETA: "Hard-edged tone"? The only word in my comment that was less than completely neutral was "bullshit", and that's no less my opinion than what Nimitz said.

Edited at 2012-08-31 02:11 am (UTC)

Fri, Aug. 31st, 2012 03:25 am (UTC)
nimitzbrood

Agreed about the tone - I didn't see it as all that harsh.

And I'm on the f-lists and tumblr follows of people that talk about the medical rights and other issues so I can see why that is a hot button for you. It's a nasty nasty business and I shoot it down any time I hear someone talking about it.

If it helps for this election I'm definitely siding Democratic as the republicans are Master level evil at the moment. In the future that might change but for voting right now there is no real choice - it has to be the Democrats. Anything else will kill us as a country at the very least if not ruin us as people

I still feel though that given their lead the Democrats could easily crank out something just a heinous. We really need a third party at the very least. That's not likely to happen any time soon though.

Fri, Aug. 31st, 2012 05:40 am (UTC)
starcat_jewel

We need several major changes which are exceedingly unlikely to occur:

1) Reverse Citizens United, and make it explicit that corporations are NOT people, and that money is NOT the same thing as speech.

2) Some variety of genuine campaign finance reform, so that people who are not independently wealthy can run for office without having to decide who they're going to be bought by.

3) Much stricter enforcement of the rules under which churches maintain their tax-free status, and possibly some changes in said rules. I'd like to see any church that buys advertising billboards around the city stripped of its tax exemption, just for starters.

4) A shift in the balance of budgets, removing enough money from the Giant Military Machine to put back some enforcement ability in consumer safety, FCC regulations, and the SEC. We still have some laws that would get the worst of the wretched excess back in check, but there's no money to pursue violators.

I have some other ideas, but it's late and I'm tired, so that's enough for starters.

Fri, Aug. 31st, 2012 08:27 am (UTC)
filkertom

No, it wasn't that bad. I'm just trying to avoid bad blood on my LJ. I found out recently that I lost a good friend, and didn't even know it, because said friend disagrees very much with my politics and decided it was easier to simply not interact with me. This is still a fresh wound, and now and then it gets ripped open, and I really don't want to lose anyone else for awhile.

And, yeah, of course the Dems could crank out something just as heinous. But, honestly, most of them do not seem inclined to do so. (Joe Lieberman notwithstanding.) A decent number of them, perhaps even a majority of them, actually seem to want to Serve The Public. And, for the most part, they seem to have learned what the Repubs have not: There's this thing called the Internet -- especially this YouTube, which remembers when you've said something....

Fri, Aug. 31st, 2012 12:48 pm (UTC)
nimitzbrood

That first part...about the friend...that's just crappy. I'm sorry someone did that to you. That's not something you do to friends. :-(

As for the Dems...my issue with them right now is not the aforementioned potential buggery they could do but with the fact that they really haven't stopped the buggery that's going on currently.

It makes me a little heartsick to think that these people (Dems or Repubs) are supposed to be representing our best interests and they aren't voting against (for the most part) things like oh say unmanned armed drones on US soil or roving TSA "Viper" bands. (Look that last one up - it'll give you chills.)

Fortunately there's not a lot of funding rolling through yet for things like that so it's slow to get rolling.

But I think you see what I mean there.

Fri, Aug. 31st, 2012 08:23 am (UTC)
filkertom

Yeah, you're right. I'm trying very hard lately to be more diplomatic, at least on this LJ among friends and all, and I might be going too far the other way. Being very tired right now doesn't help.

Just be nice to each other, and let the bullshit fall where it may.

Fri, Aug. 31st, 2012 12:49 pm (UTC)
nimitzbrood

Sometimes diplomacy is a good thing and sometimes it's not. Better most times IMHO to be openly honest and let the chips fall where they may. Yes you may have to pick up some pieces but for the most part it usually works out okay.

Thu, Aug. 30th, 2012 09:44 pm (UTC)
palenoue

I'm guessing nobody told Ryan or his speechwriters that the internet makes fact checking so gosh-darn easy they can even do it _during_ a speech. And this is the guy Romney wants to campaign with. *Sheesh*

Mon, Sep. 3rd, 2012 02:20 am (UTC)
dandelion_diva

That's the thing that gets me. It isn't 1997...they should *know* by now that we can frickin' google what they're saying. I may be slightly more disturbed by this than by the lies.

Mon, Sep. 3rd, 2012 04:02 am (UTC)
palenoue

More evidence that they're out of touch with reality. Just like Bush's fascination with grocery scanners (he had never seen one before yet tried to act like a "Regular Joe") or Sarah Palin's ignorance of what the vice president does (and deciding it's not important to know during the entire campaign), the leaders of the party consider tech to be something their staff deal with so they shouldn't be bothered to understand it themselves.

Scary thing is, Newt was the only one of them who understood the internet, which was why he killed all net taxation bills when he was in power.

Thu, Aug. 30th, 2012 11:53 pm (UTC)
peachtales

What an ass. Not that I wasn't aware of that before now, but one can always hope that some people who need to see that message, might possibly see it too.

Fri, Aug. 31st, 2012 12:14 am (UTC)
kengr

Only tangentially related, but somebody *really* goofed with a publicity shot...

http://t.co/aSshM0eA

What *were* they thinking? :-)

Fri, Aug. 31st, 2012 12:19 am (UTC)
filkertom

Oh my frickin frack. Somebody's Freudian slip was showing.

Fri, Aug. 31st, 2012 12:52 am (UTC)
lone_cat

<snicker>

Fri, Aug. 31st, 2012 06:16 am (UTC)
dornbeast

Are you absolutely sure that this isn't a Photoshop creation?

I have no idea what biases Matt Stopera or The Atlantic may have, but they raise a reasonable doubt...

Fri, Aug. 31st, 2012 12:51 am (UTC)
james_the_evil1

Here's how much of an over the top bag of lies this speech was:
"Ryan’s speech was an apparent attempt to set the world record for the greatest number of blatant lies and misrepresentations slipped into a single political speech."

Source? FOX NEWS! http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/08/30/paul-ryans-speech-in-three-words/

When you're a Republican and FOX says your speech is "riddled with lies" you have issues.

Edited at 2012-08-31 12:54 am (UTC)

Fri, Aug. 31st, 2012 01:44 am (UTC)
dr_zrfq

For all the filkers here who don't read my LJ and therefore haven't seen this idea:

Consider writing a parody of the Republican Convention / Republican Party / Romney campaign... set to the tune of Blue Öyster Cult's "Godzilla".

"Oh, no, they say he's got to go / Run run Mitt Romney!"

Or something to that effect. Knock yourselves out.

Fri, Aug. 31st, 2012 02:32 am (UTC)
nagasvoice

I'm still trying to figure out what it is about his body language that just creeps me out so badly. When I saw him without knowing who it was, it still creeped me.
Something about the unblinking look while saying numbers that are meaningless, I think. And I've been lied to by people who are far more convincing.

Fri, Aug. 31st, 2012 03:53 am (UTC)
bayushisan

I have to be totally honest about the election this year my friend. I'm so disgusted with the political scene that I'm seriously considering not voting at all this year.

I can't, and won't, vote for Romney because I trust him to not turn around and bite me about as much as I do a hostile rattlesnake.

That being said I'm also very VERY unhappy with some of President Obama's decisions. I hate that he kept the warrantless wiretaps, I hate that he kept Gitmo open, i have some personal disagreements over his policies involving Israel (which I really don't want to get into because I don't want to start a flame war. I'll only say that my beliefs regarding Israel and Jerusalem are based on my personal religious beliefs and leave it at that).

I wish I knew what to do but as much as I try to stay informed about politics, and as much as I have real interest in the subject I just can't stand anyone anymore.

*sigh* Maybe that'll change later but I'm really discouraged about the whole process these days.

Edited at 2012-08-31 03:54 am (UTC)

Fri, Aug. 31st, 2012 04:05 am (UTC)
kengr

Well, Obama is far from perfect. But just consider what things will be like if he loses.

Don't think of it as voting *for* Obama. Think of it as voting *against* Romney.

Fri, Aug. 31st, 2012 05:54 am (UTC)
bayushisan

See that's actually part of my problem. I don't believe in just voting against someone. I've always felt that a person should vote their conscience and find something or someone to vote FOR. All the years I've been voting I've managed to find a person or cause I could support and voted that way.

Sometimes I voted Liberterian, once I voted U.S. Constitution part (though those votes were early in my voting life and I no longer support them). The 2008 election was the first time I voted for a Democrat and it caused some friction between me and my father. Nothing terrible mind you, he just doesn't like the Democrat's party platforms and he didn't understand why I voted the way that I did.

To be honest I think that this year has been terrible when it comes to finding a Presidential nominee to vote for. Most of the people running have beliefs or platforms that I consider to be deal breakers.

I'll give what you and James said some thought, and make a decision when it comes time to vote.

Fri, Aug. 31st, 2012 07:31 pm (UTC)
capplor: I keep telling people

that if the refuse to vote for the lesser of two evils, they run the risk of being stuck with the greater. I'm not crazy about the lack of choice in the two party system, but I have no faith that even a "strong" 3rd party candidate will change the game at this point.

Robin

Fri, Aug. 31st, 2012 04:09 am (UTC)
james_the_evil1

Unfortunately the apathy & disgust you're feeling are all too common, and Romney's counting on it.
If you're in a battleground state it's vital that you vote. For all Obama's failings, Romney would be SO much worse it's hard to state. On the basis of furthering Bush's loading of the federal bench and SCOTUS with extreme right wingers alone (which would set us back for 50-100 years with bad laws) letting Romney in is unimaginable. What his staff is floating now is the idea that he plans to be a 1 term president, basically come in and destroy the social safety net & redirect the entire treasury to the rich & then leave. Hopefully knowing how bad that'd be is enough to get you to hold your nose & vote.

BTW, if you have close congressional races where you leave, they're even MORE important in some ways.

Sat, Sep. 1st, 2012 12:22 am (UTC)
smparadox

I think the one line that gets me the most is the Republicans calling for change. They have spent four years fighting tooth and nail against any change to the status quo, before that they re-established the status quo, before that there was a balanced budget with a surplus which was hard-clawed from the previous twelve years of Republican status quo under Reagan-Bush. And now they are the party of change?