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Tue, May. 1st, 2012, 05:46 pm
Is Your Four-Year-Old Acting Gay? "Give Him A Good Punch"
Some people are just twisted: Sean Harris, the Senior Pastor of Berean Baptist Church in Fayetteville, North Carolina, has some words of advice for parents of possibly LGBT children: Smack them around. Beat the gay out of them. Or, in his precise words, "Give [him] a good punch!" I followed the link in the dKos story, and listened to the audio of this yokel, this hayseed, this fucking jerk, specifically say that not only should you smack around your kids if they don't conform to your vision of what a boy or a girl should be like, he gives you "special dispensation" to do so. I'm pretty damn certain Child Protective Services and the Police Department would be quite interested in his legal authority to do so. He would, of course, claim some sort of "moral" authority. Except nobody -- nobody -- has the "moral authority" to punch a child. Let alone the "moral authority" to authorize others to do it. This guy is scum. ETA: There's a new link at the dKos story. Pastor Sean has responded, saying -- can you guess? -- he was "taken out of context" and everyone is "misquoting" him. He goes on to say that he and his followers must be "tolerably intolerant" of the LBGT community, and then details what I presume is the Acceptable Level of Disciplining Children: ... At times this may include appropriate and reasonable physical means (Prov. 10:13) employed upon the fleshy portion of the child's buttocks (Prov. 22:15; 23:13); that this method is to be viewed as correction rather than punishment (Prov. 23:13); and that this correction will result in the child's physical and spiritual betterment (Prov. 23:14). We believe a parent should correct his child with other means as well, but that they should-as led by the Holy Spirit-model the chastening of God the Father (Prov. 3:11-12) Who corrects all of His children out of love (2 Sam 7:14; Prov. 3:12; Heb 12:6; Rev 3:19) and forgives them by virtue of His Son's redemptive work on the cross (1 Pet. 3:18). The Father does this to develop His child's reverence for Himself (Heb. 12:9) and likeness to His Son Jesus Christ (Rom 8:29; Heb 12:11).... Don't you just love that phrasing? "Employed upon the fleshy portion of the child's buttocks". I'm goin' to Hell just for reading that. I don't even want to get into the Scripture quoted here. Suffice it to say, I won't be attending Pastor Sean's church anytime in the remaining lifespan of this universe, and I really think someone from CPS should check him out. This entry was originally posted at http://filkertom.dreamwidth.org/1513028.html. You may comment there or here, although LJ tends to have a livelier conversation at this time.
Tue, May. 1st, 2012 10:09 pm (UTC)
 lucky_otter
The only kind of punch you should give to kids is the kind made of fruit.
Wed, May. 2nd, 2012 08:10 pm (UTC)
redneckgaijin
It just occurred to me; are you too young to remember the old Hawaiian Punch animated ads? }:-{D
Wed, May. 2nd, 2012 08:14 pm (UTC)
lucky_otter
I think those were still on air up until the early 90s. Anyway, I've definitely seen them before.
Tue, May. 1st, 2012 10:21 pm (UTC)
mountain_hiker
That's all kinds of fucked-up. O_o;
Tue, May. 1st, 2012 10:23 pm (UTC)
jannyblue
The only excuse for punching a kid (or any other person) is if they hit you first with sufficient force that you are (or would be) actually injured. But that's self-defense. What this guy is advocating is insane, illegal, and just plain wrong. Bit of background: In my 20s, I once had a 12-year-old sneak up behind me with a bat. He backed down when I turned around and saw what he was doing. If he'd actually hit me with it, and it didn't knock me out, I would have fought back... and I fight dirty.
Tue, May. 1st, 2012 10:26 pm (UTC)
bayushisan
While I do think that parents shouldn't put their sons in dresses, just a personal opinion, I don't think that fathers should be punching their four year olds. If there's a question about bad behaviour you punish bad behaviour appropriately but you don't abuse your kids.
Wed, May. 2nd, 2012 05:04 am (UTC)
mimiheart
My son and his sister were about the same size. I never put him in a dress, but he would often put them on himself. (Since at age four, children like to pick out their own clothes.) Also, we had dress-up bins and he was just as likely to put on a tutu as a doctor costume -- so were his sisters. I'm not putting him in a dress, he's a kid picking out clothes to wear.
Tue, May. 1st, 2012 10:32 pm (UTC)
pbrim
As appalling as this is, there is worse out there. Such as this, where a radio personality, in all seriousness, advises a father of a lesbian to get one of his friends to "[rape] her straight". Edited at 2012-05-01 10:32 pm (UTC)
Tue, May. 1st, 2012 10:43 pm (UTC)
starcat_jewel
I was about to post that one, but you beat me to it. Of course, he'll pull the "it was just a joke, I'm an entertainer, where's your sense of humor?" defense and probably get off with a slap on the wrist at worst.
Wed, May. 2nd, 2012 12:28 am (UTC)
zellion
Ditto, that was the first thing I thought of when I saw this other post.
Wed, May. 2nd, 2012 02:58 am (UTC)
redneckgaijin
Let the preacher use the exact same defense. Oh please.
Tue, May. 1st, 2012 10:55 pm (UTC)
zibblsnrt
After a certain point I think things are far enough along the Suck Continuum that disputing the relative suck factors is kinda beside the point of the original terribleness. Suggesting someone have their daughter "raped straight" or that their son should have bones broken with the same goal in mind are prooobably in that vicinity.
Tue, May. 1st, 2012 10:55 pm (UTC)
snobahr
It begs the question - did he have his ass fucked gay?
Tue, May. 1st, 2012 10:47 pm (UTC)
peachtales
Disgusting.
Tue, May. 1st, 2012 11:27 pm (UTC)
eiblyn
Ummm....does he think Jesus wore pants? I read things like this and it just fills me with rage. This is why children need more rights. Children are human beings with feelings. Jackass.
Tue, May. 1st, 2012 11:37 pm (UTC)
joecoustic
Not going to risk sanity points by going to either site but judging from what you wrote... *shudder*.
Tue, May. 1st, 2012 11:42 pm (UTC)
virtualvirtue
Wow. This is some other brand of Christianity than I have learned all my life. I...wow. I don't even know what to say to this other than I really really really hope this pastor gets some psychological help. I just...wow. From my growing up (from my family) to my adulthood (choosing a church and living life outside my parents' home), I have been taught that loving others is behind all of the commandments I have learned and try to abide by. Love. Not hate. Not "othering." And not excusing absolutely horrid abusive behaviour. We are here to protect and love one another...every being, no matter who or what they are. The sincerely pathetic thing (to me) is that I am sadly not surprised. Hate is becoming so normal these days.
Wed, May. 2nd, 2012 12:51 am (UTC)
judifilksign
Yeah. And then treatment centers like ours hope to get the poor gay abused children before they suicide.
Wed, May. 2nd, 2012 12:56 am (UTC)
lone_cat
I am ashamed to have him as a conspecific.
Wed, May. 2nd, 2012 03:28 am (UTC)
batyatoon
I'm ashamed to share a species with this slime.
Wed, May. 2nd, 2012 02:48 am (UTC)
alverant
Isn't there some law against promoting child abuse? I'm with the others. This is messed up.
Sat, May. 5th, 2012 05:47 am (UTC)
dan_ad_nauseam
Unfortunately, the North Carolina solicitation statute only references the common law definition, so he'd have to offer consideration in order to violate it.
Wed, May. 2nd, 2012 03:01 am (UTC)
redneckgaijin
Sadly, this doesn't shock me at all. I've forgotten their names, but there's a husband-wife pair of authors who write child-rearing guides for the fundie set- the core of which is, "Beat the kid until s/he loves and obeys you." Several children have been beaten to death because of this teaching, but the authors disavow any responsibility, because obviously (TrueScotsman) if the parents had been following their guidelines properly, the kid wouldn't have continued to disobey or be less than worshipful in adulation, so it's not their fault. (/TrueScotsman) Maybe it's all in the backswing...
Wed, May. 2nd, 2012 03:39 am (UTC)
mockingbirdq
You're thinking of the Pearls' child training guides and yes-they advocate beating children with PVC pipe starting in infancy. They are monsters of the worst degree, and many conservative churches actively TEACH their parenting program to their members.
Wed, May. 2nd, 2012 08:13 pm (UTC)
redneckgaijin
Yes, that's the ones I'm thinking of, thanks.
Wed, May. 2nd, 2012 04:09 am (UTC)
 gardnerhill
The "Babywise" series by the Esso criminals? (I mean Christians.)
Wed, May. 2nd, 2012 03:30 am (UTC)
batyatoon
Ugh. Someone needs his head held underwater.
Wed, May. 2nd, 2012 03:56 am (UTC)
gardnerhill
And God, that voice - shrieking, foaming, howling - he sounds like an evil Jerry Lewis. But for me the worst part wasn't his homophobia, his hatred, his racism or xenophobia - he's a KKKhristian, that's par for the course - it was his brain-dead congregation laughing in agreement as he talked about smacking and punching effeminate little boys. No doubt consoled and comforted by religion, many of those faithful "dudes" can now go home and throw their son's Dora the Explorer backpack in the trash and smack him for crying about it. There's a reason so very, very many of us - gay, women, different - unabashedly crowed and danced when Jerry Falwell died (for all some folks' tut-tutting us about Not Being Better People about it). Jesus had a thing or two to say about pious vipers and those who harm children. I would dearly love to leave a millstone at this man's doorstep, with the appropriate Luke citation carved all over it.
Wed, May. 2nd, 2012 07:44 am (UTC)
valarltd
I must have a defective Bible. I don't seem to remember a passage where Jesus said unto them, "If your son shows forth signs of the sissy, verily I say, go forth and beat him with your fists." Mine says, "I tell you, it would be better for a man to have a illstone hung around his neck and be pushed into the sea than to harm one of these little ones." (Matthew 18:6)
Wed, May. 2nd, 2012 11:42 am (UTC)
stevemb
Why do I have a strong suspicion that "Paston" Sean spends entirely too much time thinking about "the fleshy portion of the child's buttocks"?
Wed, May. 2nd, 2012 04:17 pm (UTC)
alverant
It must be that new definition of "misquoting" which means: broadcasting exactly what he said to the world without editing out the bad parts. If you want to see "misquoting" or "taken out of context", a few years ago a Democrat was running for Senate. At a Q&A session he said, "The idea you can solve problems by throwing money at them is ridiculous and wasteful." The Heritage Foundation took that middle part, "you can solve problems by throwing money at them" and made it into a commerical which played dozens of times a night. THAT is misquoting and taking something out of context, Mr.Sean.
Wed, May. 2nd, 2012 05:02 pm (UTC)
hitchkitty
Here, "taken out of context" means: Waaaaah! Somebody outside my echo chamber heard my speech and didn't like it! I'm telling!
Wed, May. 2nd, 2012 08:28 pm (UTC)
liddle_oldman
Well, he does worship a book that begins with attempted infanticide, because the voices in Abraham's head told him to.
Thu, May. 3rd, 2012 12:00 am (UTC)
alverant
Do conservatives know there are people out there like this and if they do, why aren't they doing more to distance themselves from these nuts?
Thu, May. 3rd, 2012 03:41 pm (UTC)
annearchy
As the parent of an LGBT teenager, I can tell you authoritatively that IF my kid had shown any of this "questionable" behavior at a younger age, there is nothing we could have done to change it. He is who he is, kwim? I can't imagine attempting to "smack it out of him".
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